Amanda Stubbert: Welcome to the SPU Voices podcast, where we tell personal stories with universal impact. I’m your host, Amanda Stubbert, and today we sat down with Dr. Deana Porterfield. She was elected in January of 2023 to be Seattle Pacific University’s next president. Porterfield is the 12th president in the University’s 133-year history and its first female president. She assumed her duties on July 1, 2023, with more than 35 years of experience in higher education, including almost nine years as president of Roberts Wesleyan. Dr. Porterfield is known as a visionary leader with a passion for faith-based higher education which promotes transformational learning and hope. Dr. Porterfield, thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr. Porterfield: Thank you.
Amanda: Well, first of all, welcome to Seattle.
Dr. Porterfield: Thank you.
Amanda: We were just talking about that. Seattle is a very unique place in a lot of ways. What’s your favorite thing about the Pacific Northwest so far?
Dr. Porterfield: The water.
Amanda: The water?
Dr. Porterfield: Yes. You know, everybody talks about the rain and the clouds and everything. That’s the first thing they ask me when they call.
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: But one of the things that has really stood out to me is no matter the weather, the water is peaceful and beautiful, and you want to go down to it and just look and observe what’s happening.
Amanda: Yes.
Dr. Porterfield: Right?
Amanda: I agree.
Dr. Porterfield: Across the water. Whether it’s a ferry up on Kerry Park over at Magnolia, which I don’t know if you’d call that, like, the City of Magnolia. I still don’t know all of that.
Amanda: (laughs)
Dr. Porterfield: And I don’t know if it’s north. I think it’s north. Maybe it’s west. I don’t know. I don’t have it all sorted out.
Amanda: You’ll figure it out.
Dr. Porterfield: But there’s water everywhere.
Amanda: Yes, yes.
Dr. Porterfield: And it is so peaceful, and so I go to it.
Amanda: It is. I feel like I could stare at water all day long.
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah.
Amanda: And yes, every time you turn around there’s a hill and more water.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes.
Amanda: So when you’re new, it’s easy to get lost because you go, “Oh, landmark. I’ll go towards the water.”
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: Well, there’s so many different waters. I moved from Oregon up to Seattle to go to school here and then never went back, but I remember my grandmother coming to visit me, and we were driving around and she said, “Which water is that?” And I said, “I have no idea.”
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs) Well, and then the mountains, you know, the Cascades, all of those pieces too. But I probably embarrassed myself already by saying I didn’t know where Magnolia was. But I will learn. But there’s not that mountain you look to, necessarily, and say, “That’s north.”
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: That was true when I was in Southern California, the San Gabriel Mountains. But I’ll get there. I’ll get there. But the water, the water is peaceful, and just to go and sit and watch the view and watch the ferries, even on a rainy day, kind of calms the spirit, and I love that.
Amanda: I absolutely agree with you. A university president is a very unique role. I don’t think a lot of little girls are playing university president. When in your life did you decide that might be a path for you?
Dr. Porterfield: Well, it’s interesting because people speak into your life and say, “Oh, I think you should be that,” or, “How about this trajectory?” It was early in my career when I had individuals start to encourage me to get further education, but it’s always been a conflicting piece for me, because being a first-generation college student, being in the non-college track all through high school — and that was what they called it at my school — and then kind of moving through my journey, it was always something I struggled with because there are individuals who say, “I aspire to that role.”
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: They’re very clear. “I’m going to go get this degree and this is what I aspire to.” For me, that always felt out of sync with — if I claim that, then how do I know if that’s really where God is calling me to be, right? If I say, “This is what I want to be.”
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: And I know that doesn’t resonate with the new generation. New generations aspire and I love that. I mean, they’re very confident in that. But for me as I moved through — and again, I had children while I was working, trying to go to school while I was working, trying to balance all of that — it became more of a journey to trusting what God might have for me versus aspiring to. I’ll never forget when I first went back to school to get my doctorate. It was in the year 2000, and my kids were 8 and 4, and I had a lot of pressure to go and get this degree, and I had a lot of pressure of what type of degree I was supposed to get. “You need to be in a PhD program. It needs to be at this name university.” And so I felt all that pressure, and I leaned in and I started in a program that fit my schedule a little bit better, but at Regent University, and the PhD in Organizational Leadership. And at the end of the first semester, I will never forget it because I was registered for second semester. I’d done really well as a student, all A’s, my 12 units from August forward.
But my life was not syncing. I was getting up — at the time I had to move back into a previous role that I had while doing kind of two roles, a role split while we were hiring somebody. There was a lot of pressure in the enrollment area at the institution I was at. My kids were 8 and 4. Those were really hard years. What I started to see was my kids were struggling and I would get up, would go to work, I’d be gone to work all day, I’d come home, we’d try to get dinner together, we’d put our kids to bed, and then I would stay up until about 1 or 2 doing my homework and doing my schoolwork. And it was just not syncing.
So what ended up happening was I called the president of the university, and at this time I was told, “You’ll never be a vice president without your doctorate.” I mean, there’s a lot of pressure, right?
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: And my colleagues at the time were all men, or women that had already lived parts of their life and did not have children at home at the time. So there was not an understanding of that small-child piece at home. And I just called, and I said, “This isn’t going to work. Something’s got to give: work, family, or school. You don’t want me to stop working for you. My family’s not going to …”
Amanda: That’s not an option.
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah, “I’m not going to give that up. So I think I need to take a leave of absence.” And it was a really amazing journey, because on Monday when I got back to work — at the time I was reporting to the executive vice president. We met for lunch, and he walked in and he sat down and he said, “I came today to convince you to stay in school.” He said, “But the Lord convicted me, and you’re not supposed to do that at this time.”
Amanda: Wow.
Dr. Porterfield: And again, why I work in Christian higher ed, right?
Amanda: Right, right.
Dr. Porterfield: Because you have people that you’re working for like that. And again, I was told very clearly, “Your trajectory is probably going to stop at this point until you figure that out.” But I was okay with that. I had such peace that I was supposed to stop. I became a VP without the degree and kept moving forward. Ten years later, now my oldest daughter’s going off to college. My youngest is going into high school at the school where my husband is working, and it’s just a different space. I receive a nine-week sabbatical, and I come back, and the president — same president at the time — encourages me to really start praying and thinking about a doctoral degree again. Only this time, I had clarity. I wanted it to be a program that I was really drawn to. I mean, I read every course offered in the programs that I was considering. I wanted it to be between where I worked and where I lived. I had to commute. Wanted it to be in more of a nontraditional format, and I wanted it to be in kind of a core cohort model so that I could make relationship and move through the program with a group of people. And that’s what I found. So, all of a sudden, I am back in school in 2010, but now I’m in school with this idea that I don’t know what God’s going to call me to do and be, but I don’t want this to be what holds me back from that.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: And that was really the motivation. And a very transformational program, was able to complete in three years because I had that cohort and we drove each other. Even on the dissertation, we’re like, “We’re not doing the fourth year. We’re doing the third year,” and drove through all of that. Friends to this day. It was at the end of that that I received a call asking if I would consider applying for the presidency at Roberts Wesleyan. And, all of a sudden, it’s like, “OK, Lord. I don’t know the answer.” And this is really telling to the story. The search firm called, and I was just basking in the glow of just completing my degree. I’m like, “I’m having a party here. I’m not ready to apply for anything else.” So I didn’t apply right away, and they called back, and they said, “The search has been extended. Would you really consider doing this?” And I remember asking the search firm, “Don’t I have to be willing to go if I apply?” Which sounds like a silly question to people, but his response was, “I’m not offering you the job. I’m just asking you to apply.” And that freed me up.
I’ve always had this complex space of trying to sort out not getting ahead of God and what he would call me to do, but also trying to step into what he would call me to do. And like I said, I admire those today that are very clear. They feel that God is calling them to this type of role. It was never like that for me. And even the call to Seattle Pacific wasn’t like that. It was really about, What is God calling us to do next? How has he prepared us? What are the things that we need to be doing to hear his call in our life and then step into it?
“I’ve always had this complex space of trying to sort out not getting ahead of God and what he would call me to do, but also trying to step into what he would call me to do. And like I said, I admire those today that are very clear. They feel that God is calling them to this type of role. It was never like that for me. And even the call to Seattle Pacific wasn’t like that. It was really about, What is God calling us to do next? How has he prepared us? What are the things that we need to be doing to hear His call in our life and then step into it?”
Amanda: What I love … I love a lot of things about that story.
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs)
Amanda: But the one that really sticks out to me is something that I think a lot of women go through. We hear the statistics about applying for a job, and statistically speaking, a female will only apply for a job if she fits 100% of the criteria.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes, yes.
Amanda: And men, if it’s something like 40%.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes.
Amanda: I mean, much lower than you would think.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes, yes.
Amanda: And I hear that a lot in your career life journey, right? As women, we feel all this pressure and so we’re trying to squeeze everything in and we’re trying to be all things to all people and it has to be now, because if I hang anything up for five minutes, it won’t be there when I come back, right?
Dr. Porterfield: Right. Right. Right.
Amanda: There’s this fear that when I try and come back to this, it won’t still be there for me.
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: And yet when we relax into that, right? When we relax into the grace of, “I don’t care if my boss told me to stay in school if I know I’m not supposed to right now,” that you trust that those things will come back around.
Dr. Porterfield: That’s right.
Amanda: And you trust that if you apply and you feel like you’re supposed to apply, maybe it’s because that’s your job. Maybe it’s because you’re going to meet somebody during that application process, right?
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: I think, as women with all the pressure to be everything to everybody in our lives, we forget that we can actually just kind of enjoy our life and do the things in front of us and kind of get back to the other things later. I know I felt that way.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes.
Amanda: Our kids came along a little earlier than expected, and for about four months, I just cried myself to sleep, going, “My life is over.”
Dr. Porterfield: Right. (laughs)
Amanda: “My life is over. I’m never going to get back to any of the creative things I want to do because now I have to be a mom first.”
Dr. Porterfield: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And it’s like you can be a mom first in time, not always first in priority, right?
Dr. Porterfield: I used to do this thing, and I was going to write a chapter in a book on this. I just … I never did. I call it living within your 100%. Because there was a time when my kids were in junior high — and I have two girls.
Amanda: So do I. (laughs)
Dr. Porterfield: Wonderful girls, and they were at that stage, and they were at a school where my husband was teaching, a Christian school, and their friends’ parents were picking them up. They were fortunate to have parents where one parent was home and was able to come and pick them up at the end of the day at 3:00, 3:30, right? We didn’t have that.
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: I was overworking. My husband was finishing up — on campus, though, but still not going home. And my oldest daughter would say, “Can you just pick me up at 3:30? Can you just pick me up at 3:30?” And I just would beat myself up because, one, I did a commute of 45 minutes in Southern California, but just trying to get there. And then when we were in athletics, trying to get to every game. And it was actually going back into that doctoral degree 10 years later where I had a different perspective, and that perspective was, “OK, I can think of what 100% looks like as a wife. I can tell you everything I would do to be at 100% in my standard as a wife.”
Amanda: Right. Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: As a mom, right? As a sister, right? As a daughter. In my spiritual life. In my exercise life. I would be getting a lot of more exercise if I did 100% of my exercise life.
Amanda: (laughs)
Dr. Porterfield: I mean, you know, I’d be working out for an hour and a half, and in my spiritual life, I would be journaling for 30 minutes every day. Plus I’d be reading Scripture. I could tell you all those. OK, and then we’re involved in church. I’d be singing in the choir. I’d be playing in the orchestra. We would be going to a small Bible study. And so, unfortunately for me, my mind saw all of those things as expectations and things I should be doing, so I always felt like I was failing at that.
Amanda: Yes. And how many other women feel that way ever day?
Dr. Porterfield: Right. Every day.
Amanda: Every day.
Dr. Porterfield: And so I had, like, 16 categories. Well, I don’t have 1600%. And, by the way, I require eight hours of sleep. So how does that work, right? And so this living within your 100% is in this season of your life, make one funnel and put the things into your 100% in this season, because you can change it.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: So, when I entered my doctoral program, I wasn’t going to sing in the choir for that season, play in the orchestra for that season. I was going to church, right? I was doing those things. I couldn’t get to all the away games and all the home games of my kids, but I was going to get to all the home games, right? What does that look like? How do we spend time? We were going to do dinner together as a family every night. So we may miss some things, but with our crazy schedules, even if it was at In-N-Out Burger, we would all wait and have dinner together as a family. Those were all little things, but this idea of we only have the 100%, and so how do you put into that funnel, for that season of your life, what that looks like?
Amanda: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Porterfield: And that has evolved for me over time. When I became the president at Roberts, what ended up happening is I was invited into a spiritual formation group — a kind of a cohort tester — through Fuller Seminary with other presidents of CCCU schools. There was a small group of us, and in that model, what we ended up doing is coming up with what they call a “rule of life” or the “rhythms of your life.” I’ve identified the rules and rhythms of my life that allow me to be who God created me to be and to live out that space. And I’m in a different space now, right? I have two grown daughters. They’re married. Five grandchildren. It’s just a completely different space, but we still have to be accountable to the things that provide the balance and the rhythm for us. So for me, that’s sleep. I have to always pay attention to what I eat. It’s just, I love food. I love fried food. (laughs)
“When I became the president at Roberts, what ended up happening is I was invited into a spiritual formation group — a kind of a cohort tester — through Fuller Seminary with other presidents of CCCU schools. There was a small group of us, and in that model, what we ended up doing is coming up with what they call a ‘rule of life’ or the ‘rhythms of your life’ I’ve identified the rules and rhythms of my life that allow me to be who God created me to be and to live out that space. And I’m in a different space now, right? I have two grown daughters. They’re married. Five grandchildren. It’s just a completely different space, but we still have to be accountable to the things that provide the balance and the rhythm for us.”
Amanda: (laughs)
Dr. Porterfield: I mean, if I could eat fish and chips every day, I’d probably do it here. But I can’t. But food matters, and it impacts me if I don’t do that correctly. Exercise. My spiritual journey, making sure I spend time with God. Taking the Sabbath every week, even in this position. Which sounds like, “Of course you would.” Well, you can end up with events seven days a week. And then also having somebody that I speak with, because I’m an extroverted processer. And there’s a few of those that I don’t have all in order yet in my eight months here, but having somebody to speak with, a counselor or a spiritual director or somebody that’s an external person that I can just verbally process with — 99% of the time, it’s work related. (laughs) But it’s just trying to make sense of those things. That rhythm, that living within your 100%, I didn’t learn that early enough and I beat myself up for a long time.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: It’s part of why that 10 years earlier I went into school: I was listening to the pressures that people put on me. But there was a breaking point in that. And there was also a breaking point in my ability to also live within the giftings that God gave me and settle into saying, “I am still a good mom. I am still a good employee. I am still a good believer, Christian in my life, even if there are seasons where I can’t do it all.”
Amanda: And when we’re already maxed out and we’re already giving ourselves completely unrealistic goals, and then we take a good chunk of the energy that we have to give and we use that to beat ourselves up.
Dr. Porterfield: Oh, yes.
Amanda: Right?
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah.
Amanda: Like, that’s not helping.
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah.
Amanda: Not helping anyone.
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah, yeah.
Amanda: Not us, not anybody else.
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah.
Amanda: And we also decide what 100% means without asking.
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah.
Amanda: And I think that’s a big one that I’ve learned along the way. I remember when my kids were in elementary school, I joined the PTA and I hated it.
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs)
Amanda: I’m just going to be totally honest. I hated everything about it. But I thought I was doing it for my kids. I was showing up for them, right?
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: Being a part of the process. And they were just mad that I had to leave every Thursday to go to the meeting.
Dr. Porterfield: Right, right.
Amanda: And I was like, “Who am I doing this for?”
Dr. Porterfield: Right, right. (laughs)
Amanda: “Who is this for?” And, I mean, I even had a moment when my kids were very little and not sleeping very well and I was beating myself up that if I just could spend more time with God, then I would have more peace and I wouldn’t beat myself up so much, right?
Dr. Porterfield: Yes. Yeah.
Amanda: This really fun, vicious …
Dr. Porterfield: Oh, yeah, there’s that spiritual pressure right there. (laughs)
Amanda: Yep, fun, vicious cycle that sinks in. If I could just get up an hour before my kids every day, then everything would be fine, right?
Dr. Porterfield: Right. Right. Right.
Amanda: And one day I was doing the dishes, and once in a while I feel like you hear that audible voice of God and it was like, “Who asked you to do that?”
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: Maybe somebody from the pulpit, but it was not me.
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: It was not me. Yeah (laughs) it was not me.
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs)
Amanda: That’s when I just decided that I would take whatever time I did have.
Dr. Porterfield: Right, yes.
Amanda: Like doing the dishes or driving, things like that. But I love that idea, and I hope you do put that chapter in a book someday.
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs) I have a visual and everything.
Amanda: Yeah, because so many of us do that. You think, “Well, if I just did XYZ, then everything would be great.”
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: But if you add up XYZ, there’s no way. You can’t do it. There’s not enough room.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes. You can’t do it. No.
Amanda: Nobody can.
Dr. Porterfield: But I think there’s also, depending on how you grew up or how you came into your faith, there are also these other complexities. I’ve always worked in Christian higher education, so my spiritual life intertwines with my work life. They are not separate.
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: So in that — you just touched on this — one of the things that I have seen in myself and in others is this how we sort out what God’s asking us to do and what others are asking us to do. So if we really respect and honor those that we’re reporting to — which I always have, and I see them as spiritual mentors as well because of their journeys — sometimes that gets a little muddy. And so for me, 26 years at my alma mater where I grew up and began to develop into who I am today, wonderful experiences, but there were times in there where I kept that relationship a little off at times. And so this idea of what ministry looks like in the work, it’s a powerful, wonderful thing to be working at a Christian university where my faith doesn’t need to be hidden, where I can intertwine all of that. But at times, there are just moments where this is the right decision to make and the spiritual influence of that or people’s spiritual words can be out of line, but we trust it too much because we’re trying to figure out if God’s saying that to us too.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: So there’s a real balance in that. I don’t know, I’m kind of going down another direction, but that is one of the things I’ve seen in Christian higher education, is it’s hard to separate out what God’s doing in our life and then the work, because it’s intertwined, and it can mess us up sometimes.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: And keep us from making the decisions we need to make for our family and ultimately even for our own relationship with Christ.
Amanda: Right. Right. And everything in life is that way, right? It’s a trade-off. Something becomes easier, but then a new problem pops ups.
Dr. Porterfield: That’s right.
Amanda: It’s like as your kids grow, you’re like, “Oh, if they just would walk, my life would be easier.”
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs)
Amanda: No, no. It’s easier in one way, right?
Dr. Porterfield: Right, right.
Amanda: But then you start chasing them and it’s a whole other thing.
Dr. Porterfield: It’s true.
Amanda: And I think it’s the same thing, right? You work in a Christian environment, and you go, “Oh, my gosh, I get to be my whole self all day every day.”
Dr. Porterfield: Yes. Yes.
Amanda: But then there’s some mess in there, too.
Dr. Porterfield: There is.
Amanda: There’s always a trade-off.
Dr. Porterfield: Because then we expect things that we maybe shouldn’t expect in an employment setting.
Amanda: Yes. We expect people to be perfect, right?
Dr. Porterfield: Right, right, right.
Amanda: Because they’re supposed to be tapped into God.
Dr. Porterfield: Right, yeah.
Amanda: So that can get tricky as well. Well, this really leads me to something I was interested to ask you about. As our first female president at SPU — and I believe women represent about a third of university presidents, and within the CCCU, it’s much less than that.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes.
Amanda: I think it’s more like 10, 11%, something like that.
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah, 12, currently 12 out of just over 180 institutions, and it changes every day.
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: So I’m always like, 12 today, but maybe we added one yesterday. (laughs)
Amanda: Right, right.
Dr. Porterfield: Or lost one.
Amanda: Yeah. It’s a very small percentage, really, is what we’re saying.
Dr. Porterfield: It is.
Amanda: And so I don’t want to ask the obvious question of what’s that like for you, because you’re you. You haven’t experienced it a different way.
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah.
Amanda: But what I want to know is, how can allies help people like you?
Dr. Porterfield: Hmm, yeah. It’s interesting, my research for my dissertation was on the female presidents of the CCCU, and there were six at the time. What was interesting in that finding, one of the findings, was that they were primarily single. And I think that’s a fascinating piece. As I look at my colleagues today, there is still a percentage that are single. I don’t know what that says about Christian ministry, Christian higher ed, and our willingness to allow women to be their full self as they move through their employment and their trajectory, but it is interesting, right?
“It’s interesting, my research for my dissertation was on the female presidents of the CCCU, and there were six at the time. What was interesting in that finding, one of the findings, was that they were primarily single. And I think that’s a fascinating piece. As I look at my colleagues today, there is still a percentage that are single. I don’t know what that says about Christian ministry, Christian higher ed, and our willingness to allow women to be their full self as they move through their employment and their trajectory, but it is interesting, right?”
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: And again, at times women step away for families, which is wonderful, and they do that, but it changes their opportunity as they move through. What I would say is, for both women and those that have an ethnically diverse background, there are trends and there is data that shows similarities. It requires access into the opportunity. Now, you have to do your work and you have to be able to stand there and compete at the same level, so it’s not about a compromise of skillset or ability, but it is about access, because we hire who we know, and we hire what we’re familiar with. So the key, in my opinion, is your board of trustees. What does your board of trustees look like? How diverse are they in gender, age, ethnicity, all of those things? Because they see different things. And then as you diversify that area, you diversify your cabinet, which then diversifies the community. But there are real barriers. The research talks about the glass ceiling. We’ve always heard about that.
Amanda: Sure.
Dr. Porterfield: You’re going to hit the ceiling. But there’s also research on the glass cliff, and what it says is when organizations are in crisis, that’s when they look to the other populations. I don’t know, some might say we’re in crisis here. I don’t know that that’s why they looked to me, because I also want to believe that I had nine years of experience, successful experience at another institution. But it’s when organizations are looking for a real change that you see different decisions.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: And that’s not to disparage my male counterparts that I know, who are wonderful and have done a wonderful job at their institutions and have the experience to be in those roles and have been very successful. But it is noticeable that we are still struggling within Christian higher education — nationally as well, by the way.
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: But it’s even tighter and smaller in Christian higher education. And I don’t know what that is. Now, at least half of our denominations don’t believe in women’s ordination, so you’re never going to be a female president at an institution that’s tied to a denomination that doesn’t believe in women’s ordination or leadership.
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: So you got to get rid of 50% of them at least, right?
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: I don’t know what the percentage is, but, you know, you’ve got to put those to the side. But within our tradition, our Wesleyan tradition, our holiness tradition, we have always led with women’s ordination and those pieces. So in order to understand why there’s so few presidents in our universities, you also have to go back to the church where they believe in women’s ordination, but the number of female pastors that also serve …
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: It’s all part of the piece. But I think, overall, how we demonstrate opportunity and we speak into people. I was at a wonderful institution, and it was made clear to me that I wouldn’t be able to learn the advancement skills because I had a male president, who, by the way, was my most significant mentor and spoke into my life and gave me access. But in that moment, in that space of traveling together, I didn’t have that opportunity. So there are just moments within the spaces of Christian higher education that we have to wrestle with.
Amanda: Sure.
Dr. Porterfield: And I know that’s still true, and for whatever reason, people have to create those policies to feel comfortable or safe or whatever that looks like. But it does put a barrier to the ability to have the strength sets and the skills to be able to move into those roles.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: I don’t know, is that the direction you wanted to go?
Amanda: Sure.
Dr. Porterfield: What else would you like to hear?
Amanda: Sure. No, I think that’s a great answer. But it also brought to mind this sort of age-old church idea of two for the price of one.
Dr. Porterfield: Oh, yes.
Amanda: Right? Like, I’m going to hire a youth pastor, but I expect his wife to work just as hard as he does, even though she’s not on the payroll.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes, yes. Yes.
Amanda: Because she’s the pastor’s wife.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes.
Amanda: And I think that mentality can also trickle into higher ed, where it’s like you get the president, but you also get the face of something.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes.
Amanda: Right? And yet, they don’t expect a husband, necessarily, to do that.
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs)
Amanda: Can I ask you, how does your husband feel about being the president’s husband?
Dr. Porterfield: Right, the first spouse?
Amanda: The first spouse, yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs) So it’s interesting, because every institution has a different model for the presidency and the first — well, let’s just be honest — the first lady.
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: That’s what it’s called in many institutions. And I followed that at one institution that was more in the traditional model of the first lady, and so my husband comes along and you’re kind of joking, but the questions still were, would I run the female Bible study in the afternoon on this day?
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: Which was interesting. And I said, “No, and probably my husband won’t do that female Bible study either,” right?
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: It’s a wonderful thing, but again, just conceptually, it was trying to change the model. But what would happen then — and I found this really interesting — is that he ended up getting a different position on campus and coaching volleyball while we were at Roberts, but what happened is they always included the spouse prior to that, but then they just stopped including the spouse in the pieces.
Amanda: Hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: And so little things, when I would travel, you know that there are certain venues where people need to see you together and there are other venues you can travel independently.
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: But you don’t see that always with the other structure, right?
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: And so now coming here, we’re a little more progressive on the West Coast, right? But there was still a first lady, right? And she still had things that she would do. So now what we had decided is there are some complexities at SPU, coming here, and so this first year we’re going to just kind of do life together and my husband’s going to travel with me so we can get a real sense of what the work is and how challenging it’s going to be for that support role to get us settled in. But it’s also hard because he needs his thing, right?
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: And so we’re still trying to figure that out, but there were times where the spouse didn’t travel before and I’m saying, “No, my husband’s going to travel with me now.” So it’s a really interesting piece. I think most of the time people are trying to figure out what to do with the first spouse. What is he doing? What should he be doing?
Amanda: Right. They’re not coming from a place of malice.
Dr. Porterfield: No.
Amanda: They just have no model for what it’s supposed to look like.
Dr. Porterfield: No. And when you’re with other presidents, there’s always a spouse track, but, again, it’s primarily women, which my husband has gone to a few of those. There’s, like, three men that show up to those. They’re talking about hospitality and how to use the home as a support to the president, and that’s relevant for us, but it looks different for my husband than it does for some of the other roles.
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: If we were reversed, I would be sitting in those sessions in that same kind of role based on what that looks like. But it is a unique thing. I think people try to make sense of it. In some ways, it’s fine. That’s just the president and she’s a woman. No big deal and let’s move on. But in other settings, when we are in an elevator in a conference and we both have name tags on and it says the name of Seattle Pacific but it doesn’t say position. My husband’s in his suit. I’m in my suit. They greet him.
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: It’s just the reality.
Amanda: It’s just the reality.
Dr. Porterfield: And he says, “This is the president.” Right?
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: So those are just things that you will always have to deal with. And again, I think within Christian community it’s probably a little (laughs) farther behind where society might be.
Amanda: Yeah. It’s so deep, right? It is so deep in the roots. Just about the time I was graduating from SPU and my future husband and I got engaged, he was serving as a youth pastor at the time. The day we announced to the church that we were engaged, after the service, many people came up to say hi and give us a hug. This lovely, lovely pillar of the church, older lady says to me, “Do you play the piano or do you just sing?”
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs)
Amanda: And I said, “Well, I’m a comedian. What do you want to do with that?” Right? I mean, it was like we haven’t even set the wedding date and already you’re telling me I’m not going to measure up to who you want me to be.
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: Right?
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: And that pressure, right? That pressure to fit the mold is huge.
Dr. Porterfield: It is.
Amanda: It is huge.
Dr. Porterfield: When I was doing my research with the female presidents, one of them actually was told, “Oh, this is great. You don’t have a husband. We’ll have more of your time.”
Amanda: (laughs)
Dr. Porterfield: So the perception of being single, even, in the role was that they would just give their whole life without balance to that.
Amanda: Yeah, because if you don’t have kids or a husband to serve, then you can just serve us 24/7.
Dr. Porterfield: Right. Right. Right. So, I mean, these are real comments, you know.
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: And I hear them. Sometimes I don’t even realize somebody said something like that until after. I’m like, “Wow, did they really just say that?”
Amanda: (laughs)
Dr. Porterfield: And I wasn’t quick enough, right?
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: But, you know, so many years in the ministry together with my husband, who was a music minister, all of those years, these are all of the things that come with that. And I did play the piano and I did sing, so I accompanied the worship.
Amanda: You had that covered.
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs) Yeah, but again, it was always that team effort, and I think it’s interesting that when you flip that and, as a female president, it’s not viewed in the same team effort.
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: I think that’s the part that’s disappointing, is that, no, we are together. We are a team. And people like to see you together, but they don’t put it in the same context of this person is supporting, so I’m supporting my husband by being the piano player, by being the singer.
Amanda: Right.
Dr. Porterfield: And I’m right there with him. But, honestly, whether he chooses to find a third career — because he has left two careers for us to follow this call — whatever that is, he is my partner in this, and he is in a role of supporting the work that I’m doing at SPU. But people have a hard time putting that in that order.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. I know you’ve been working tirelessly since you got here.
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs)
Amanda: Like you said, you didn’t come in at the most peaceful moment in time.
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: So as you move forward, we’ve been talking a lot about you specifically and your role, and I’m sure you could talk about this for hours.
Dr. Porterfield: Yes.
Amanda: So elevator pitch. What is the first big success you’re hoping to achieve here at SPU?
Dr. Porterfield: Right. You know, it’s funny, because there’s always these metrics that people give you. “Oh, is it enrollment? Is it a big donor gift?” Right?
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Porterfield: And, by the way, those are all things that matter, right?
Amanda: Yeah.
Dr. Porterfield: I would say the success would be seeing a unity on campus amongst the faculty/staff and then ultimately the students. I think who we are and who we will become through this process of a very difficult time has required us to be in different spaces for a lot of reasons. But if we can come back together, that will be success, going the same direction with our individualities and all of our different thinking and, you know, all the different departments we have. But to be … You know, they say rowing in the same direction. I would say playing on the same sheet of music in the orchestra, right? Going that direction. To me, that will be the movement to all those other metrics.
“I would say the success would be seeing a unity on campus amongst the faculty/staff and then ultimately the students. I think who we are and who we will become through this process of a very difficult time has required us to be in different spaces for a lot of reasons. But if we can come back together, that will be success, going the same direction with our individualities and all of our different thinking and, you know, all the different departments we have. But to be … You know, they say rowing in the same direction. I would say playing on the same sheet of music in the orchestra, right? Going that direction. To me, that will be the movement to all those other metrics.”
Amanda: Yeah. I love that. I love that analogy. And even the taking from the sports metaphor of rowing in the same direction and move it into the arts, because if you’re the conductor and the campus is the orchestra, it is more than just moving in the same direction, right?
Dr. Porterfield: Right, right.
Amanda: It’s everybody contributing their highest best, but in a way that’s contributing to the whole, right?
Dr. Porterfield: Right.
Amanda: The gestalt of the orchestra is where you’re coming from.
Dr. Porterfield: That’s right.
Amanda: Well, can I just say for me that I think you are the right person to make that happen. Like you said, you have spent your entire life breaking a mold, trying to find a new mold, find a way to fill a mold in a new way, and that’s exactly what you’re being asked to do here.
Dr. Porterfield: Thank you.
Amanda: I just really feel like God has put you here to do exactly that.
Dr. Porterfield: Thank you.
Amanda: To create something new in a way that someone who maybe looks exactly like all the other presidents wouldn’t be able to do, because it could look like the same thing. And you can’t.
Dr. Porterfield: (laughs) I don’t look like the same thing.
Amanda: You can’t be the same thing even if you want to, right? But I’m saying that’s a wonderful thing. I think that’s exactly, exactly what is needed.
Dr. Porterfield: Thank you. Thank you.
Amanda: Let’s wrap up with our last question we ask every one of our guests here.
Dr. Porterfield: OK.
Amanda: If you could have everyone in Seattle wake up tomorrow morning and do just one thing differently that would make the world a better place, what would you have us all do?
Dr. Porterfield: I’d have us come together in conversations where we’re open, coming with intellectual and spiritual humility, with graciousness, with hospitality, in a way that truly sees and hears people, hears the other person.
Amanda: Yeah. That’s really the basis for all things, isn’t it? Yeah. Come to the table.
Dr. Porterfield: Yeah.
Amanda: Well, Deana, do you mind if I call you Deana?
Dr. Porterfield: No. Perfect.
Amanda: Dr. Deana.
Dr. Porterfield: Perfect. (laughs)
Amanda: Thank you so much for spending this time with us, and just all the blessings in the world on this new path for you and your family.
Dr. Porterfield: Thank you.
